The Matthias Chronicles: Women in the Church

My response to the article found in the Raleigh-News & Observer of September 22,2008 concerning the Southern Baptist Conventions view on women Pastors:

I continue to receive inquiries about the acceptable roles for women in the church. Within the churches I've worked in, the churches I've visited and the churches I've read about (during 40 years of working with churches around the world) there's probably no more volatile and debated subject than the role of women in the church. And, I know I will not persuade those reading this one way or another. So, let me first state my position. Then if you disagree, you can save yourself time by simply ignoring the truth and going on your merry way to you own undoing.

First of all who do you think you are? What gives you the right to presume to know what God says or supposedly says concerning who can and can not "preach or teach" the truth of His word? You Hypocrites! Woe unto you who preach false teaching and twisted lies! Woe unto you who sit in high places and judge others, including God in what he does; because it doesn't meet your ideas and notions of how things should be! Woe unto you who condemn and belittle those whom he calls by calling them heretics and blasphemers! Woe unto you who dare to subjugate [to dominate; to enslave; to conquer] those whom He calls because you think that you [men] are the only ones that he will ever call to His service.

There is no position within the church that a woman cannot and should not hold. That includes apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher. The home is a different story. I'm not going to teach on submission or our roles in the family. In the home the husband is ordained to lead (although the reality is often different). In the church there is no difference in man or woman. Within the body of Christ we know that Galatians 3:23-29 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Of course the author of this statement to the Galatians, Apostle Paul, is at the center of this centuries old debate. When he said this, he seemed in agreement with the teachings of God Himself. Genesis 2:18-25 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. We see that God originated man and woman as one. He brought woman forth from man as a "help meet," not a servant. So, they become two. But Adam recognized that the two would once again become one (equal) before the Lord. God signifies their unity, oneness and equality with their nakedness. There were obvious physical differences but no spiritual differences. Later we see this in the story of Deborah and Barak . . . Judges 4:4-5 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment. Deborah was chosen by God to lead the nation as prophetess and judge. She was the recognized spiritual leader. Barak was the physical leader of the army. Yet, Barak knew he could not lead the nation's forces without his submission to Deborah. Later still God speaks through his prophet discussing the spiritual role of women . . . Joel 2:28-29 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. Do you suppose God would pour out His spirit equally on men and women, and equally call and choose them to prophesy to the church, but only allow men to speak within the church? Is that what Paul believed? Paul said . . . 1Corinthians 12:4-7 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. Now, Paul told those guys in Galatia that there was neither male or female, so when he says the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man, he includes women. Right? That agrees with what God spoke through the Prophet Joel. So, if Paul agrees with God's statement, do you think he would disagree with God by only allowing men to speak within the church? I don't think so. Yet, Paul says . . . 1Corinthians 14:34-35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 1Timothy 2:11-12 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. Did Paul change his mind? Does he now disagree with God? Or is he like so many men who say, "it's okay with me if a woman is a pastor, just so it's not my church she pastors." What would Paul say about Deborah? If Paul believes that way, why does he obviously consider Priscilla and Phoebe to be church leaders? Paul's teachings come to us through letters he wrote to early churches organized under his leadership. Not everything he wrote in those letters is for the church universal. Some things were meant for specific churches. Why does he write to the Galatian church of the equality within the church of all believers, if he truly believes women should not hold equal status with men? He wouldn't, for he also writes that God is not a god of confusion.

He sets limits to the role of women in the church at Corinth, not in Galatia or Thessalonica or Rome. Why? There was a problem in the church at Corinth and in the city itself. The pagan's worshiped the goddess Diana, and the church was full of converted pagans. So, Paul saw a church struggling with the effects of the world. Converts were bringing their habits, their beliefs, their actions, their dress code into the church. It was rapidly becoming a worldly church. He put a stop to it by relegating women to silent subservience in the church.

So, where does that leave us? Women have every right and freedom to serve in any capacity in the church. If God calls and chooses a woman to pastor a church, who can stand against that? In the Bible God called various women to His service in various ways. we already mentioned Deborah who was judge over Israel; but there is Ruth, Esther and Mary Magdalene. Outside the bible there was Joan of Arc who also lived and died for Christ. I am quite sure there are many others over the ages that have done the same thing and have been persecuted and even put to death over it. I assure you tat from my point of view, as being a Minister and servant of God for over 40 years, it is worth it all for God. men and this world are of little consequence to me; for it is they who will have to answer to it in the end. A final note to this: Men are losing power and their control over organized religion because they have strayed far from the truth and the Word of God. God has been reaching out to calling women to service since the late 1940's and early 1950's with people like Kathryn Khulman to preach the truth and who do not care about control, for the most part. Today we have Joyce Myers and others preaching the word of God. The women that God truly calls only care about people knowing the Bible and all of it's truth without the ritual, rhetoric, man's theology or man's claim to always know what God means and is really saying! They don't. They, if they listened, would know what God was really saying if they would listen to him instead of putting words into God's mouth and they are doing it more and more these days. God, in the first place is not a religion! He is our Father in heaven and the Creator of us all. Religion is man's concept. God is to be respected as you would any loving and caring parent. He is to be worshipped as the creator of all things and the one gave his only begotten son, Jesus Christ, so that we may have redemption from sin and life everlasting. God is also the one who will separate the saved from the Unsaved (good and evil). He is the one who decides our eternal fate depending on our choice to either accept the gift of Salvation or reject it.

One more thing, nothing burns God more than someone who tries to keep him in their box where they think they can determine what God can or can not/will or will not do! God can and will do what ever he feels is necessary to reach the Lost and he will call whomever He knows will do just that - irregardless of what man may think. Sadly people think the things that God and Jesus did in the bible, ended with the book of Revelation - it didn't and He still takes an active role in his creation as does his son.

In Closing, I would like to submit to you this concerning the male dominated churches of yesteryear and today thoughts on women in the church concerning women. The church's name has been changed as has any reference to it so as not to be called "slanderous". I thought that this might speak to those who are truly trying to preach the Truth of God's Word and have had to deal with being called a heretic and a blasphemer amongst many other things. It is to be expected if we truly serve the Lord and stick to the truth without variance. This is a sample of what you might have had to deal with, especially if you are a woman - men are often included in this as well - as Paul the apostle was. This is totally based on my own experiences, but may have some similarities to whatever you have experienced. Do not be swayed from what you know to be the truth - Ever! God never chooses who man expects or commands to be chosen. Many have been turned away from the calling from God because man has appointed themselves judge and jury over who really is called - only because they will be easy to conform to man's will. "GOD CHOSE THE FOOLISH THINGS OF THE WORLD TO SHAME THE WISE." ( 1 CORINTHIANS 1:27 ) Has someone told you you're not qualified because you are a woman? If so, read on:

Dear Abp. Mary:

We received your application for service in our Church. Frankly we're amazed you've been able to pass as a Minister and now an Archbishop for so long.

Here's why:

(1) We're told that you're afflicted with eye trouble. We require 20/20 vision.

(2) We hear that you totally rely on God to support you and your Ministry. How come?

(3) Is it true that you once had a nervous breakdown and once you had committed suicide? Think how this would reflect on your organization.

(4) It's reported from many places on the internet that you made so much trouble for the "Christian" community there that they refer to you as the one who "turns the internet world upside down." We deplore persistent and determined people who stick to the Word in ministry and do not bend.

(5) You refer to yourself as "The Servant of God." and on occasion have given prophecy that is not yet occurred. It is true that some have, but most have not. You stand firm in what you believe that God has given you, telling us that not even the prophets of old didn't see all that God had told them to prophesy come to past. How dare you use them as examples - they were all men. What makes you think that God would favor you with Prophesy? The gifts of the Spirit are only given to the men who have a place of distinction in the church and not to every Susie and Joe that comes down the pike.

(6) Your Doctor reports that you are a handicapped woman, (which is already quite obvious) with many health problems, frequently sick, and always so agitated over the fact that churches are not preaching the gospel in it's entire truth. He (your doctor) tells us that you sleep very poorly. He indicated that you move around the house praying sporadically day and night. It is also against our policies to allow women to preach as the word of God tells us that women should be silent in church. Our ideal applicant has a clear mind and a robust body. We believe that a good night's sleep will give you zest and zip so that you will wake up full of zing. So, we regret to inform you, Sister Mary, that in all our experience we've never met a candidate so opposite to the requirements of our board. If we should accept you, we would be breaking every principle of current Clergical / Ministerial practice.

(7) Another reason for your rejection is because we consider women weak of mind and spirit and without the men you would have nothing and no knowledge of God whatsoever.

(8) You have chosen to override all church tradition and theology, reasoning that God has instructed you in what He "has called" you to do. That is not possible! God doesn't personally instruct anyone, but those who are in the high places in the church or as Ministers who have gone through Seminary School.

(9) You are a radical that will not adhere to the rules of any church, claiming that "it is of man and not of God". How dare you!

(10) Your methods of preaching and teaching are totally unorthodox and do not conform to what we would ask you to preach on. It has been said that you make people uncomfortable in what you preach and tell them that if they are they should take a look at why it does; because you will preach the truth and not what we want you to say or what is comfortable for them.

(11) You are stubborn and non-conforming to our ways and policies of this church board and that is dangerous.

(12) Finally, because you will not speak anything but the truth and not allow politics to intefere with the Word of God; we deem you unfit to serve in our church in any capacity.

Signed by the,

We Overrule God Committee

Signed,

The President & Members - The Church Board

Matthias, The committee letter would be funny if it didn't have a heartbreaking dose of current reality to it. Challenging post!

"First of all who do you think you are? What gives you the right to presume to know what God says or supposedly says concerning who can and can not "preach or teach" the truth of His word? You Hypocrites!........"

The truth is it is a real application Letter of Rejection I got years ago. As I said in the article about "Women In Church"; I changed the names to prevent being accused of slander. It also servesz another purpose. It is the frequent reaction of the male clergy of many of the churches in regards to women and it could apply to any female that is called of God truly, and is rejected Liek I was for over 40+ years and still am rejected. God, however, has given me a ministry that spans the globe and they (the male clergy of this world who have a problem with women clergy) have nothing to say a bout it! Parise the Lord!